15:00:31 <x1sc0> #startmeeting
15:00:32 <IZBot> Meeting started Tue Jun 26 15:00:31 2018 UTC.  The chair is x1sc0. Plugin info at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:32 <IZBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:39 <x1sc0> so let's get started
15:00:45 <x1sc0> welcome everyone
15:00:49 <x1sc0> anyone around ?
15:00:52 <buovjaga> yea
15:00:53 <djredaux> yes
15:01:16 <x1sc0> #topic rollcall
15:01:19 * sophi there :)
15:01:32 <x1sc0> let's wait a few minutes to see if others join
15:01:33 <bearon> yup
15:04:18 <x1sc0> so, if there are no other topics, we could start by discussing about the email buovjaga sent to the mailing list
15:05:29 <x1sc0> buovjaga, some people have suggested some ideas ( including me ) although that wasn't the initial purpose of the mail I guess
15:05:56 <x1sc0> #topic Next level of QA
15:06:04 <buovjaga> yes, I would hope the people suggesting the ideas would also be the people implementing/trying them out :)
15:06:13 <x1sc0> #link http://document-foundation-mail-archive.969070.n3.nabble.com/Libreoffice-qa-Next-level-of-QA-and-how-to-get-there-td4241869.html
15:07:00 <x1sc0> yep, that's a tiny difference, suggesting ideas vs implementing them
15:07:51 <x1sc0> at least we can try to list those ideas here and discuss about them
15:08:34 <x1sc0> probably I can spend some time with some of them
15:09:00 <x1sc0> for instance
15:09:38 <x1sc0> #idea raal mentioned we should create videos like ( how to report a bug, bisect and issue )
15:09:57 <x1sc0> and I remember we talked about it in a previous QA meeting
15:11:15 <x1sc0> so, I'll spend some time on that and I will creates the scripts for it
15:11:42 <x1sc0> well, at least the one for bisecting, the one for reporting bugs should be do after August
15:12:16 <x1sc0> buovjaga, BTW, are you sure the new Bugzilla version will come out in August ? it's just 1 month and a half away
15:13:39 <buovjaga> x1sc0: yes
15:14:17 <x1sc0> ok, then we will wait until we use the new version
15:14:18 <buovjaga> the development has been steady
15:14:41 <x1sc0> for now, I can make the bibisect one
15:14:49 <buovjaga> UX work has not been as fast, but still, there is some new stuff right now on Twitter: https://twitter.com/BugzillaUX
15:15:13 <buovjaga> (new attachment uploader)
15:15:32 <x1sc0> and you think that UI will be the default one ?
15:16:07 <buovjaga> I expect so, would be disappointed if not
15:16:22 <buovjaga> the whole point was to harmonise with BMO
15:16:57 <x1sc0> maybe we have to enable the expert mode first, like the notebookbar
15:17:15 <djredaux> buovjaga: BMO ?
15:17:25 <buovjaga> djredaux: bugzilla.mozilla.org
15:17:51 <buovjaga> https://github.com/mozilla-bteam/bmo vs. https://github.com/bugzilla/harmony
15:18:01 <djredaux> buovjaga: TY
15:18:57 <x1sc0> ok, anyway, let's wait until the new release is out to record the video
15:19:36 <x1sc0> raal is also suggesting another idea
15:20:01 <x1sc0> #idea more QA marketing
15:20:31 <x1sc0> for instance, have more activity in the planet
15:21:22 <x1sc0> UX Team has a dedicated blog for UX topics
15:21:45 <x1sc0> so something similar for QA
15:22:26 <sophi> x1sc0: that's a good idea
15:23:06 <x1sc0> personally, i think it's a good idea, but I don't know if it means more people getting involved, at least
15:23:48 <sophi> I guess bringing interest is the first step, then we can try to attract people from there
15:24:08 <x1sc0> Mozilla has something like that
15:24:12 <x1sc0> #link https://quality.mozilla.org/
15:24:55 <sophi> I forward you weekly report to the FR qa mailing list to make people aware and try to bring attention, no result for the moment, but I'll go on ;)
15:25:06 <x1sc0> sophi, do you think we can use it to give kudos to people  ?
15:25:13 <buovjaga> we can get FR QA to blog
15:25:16 <djredaux> isn't https:qa.libroffice.org roughly the same thing as what mozilla has?
15:25:30 <x1sc0> I mean, would be an issue with the names ?
15:25:57 <buovjaga> #link https://qa.libreoffice.org/
15:26:01 <sophi> x1sc0: I don't think there is an issue with the names, it's a public instance
15:26:03 <buovjaga> I did not know we had that :)
15:26:27 <buovjaga> that is a Silverstripe instance
15:27:06 <sophi> I mean BZ is public, this is where you find names, it's like the credit page we have already
15:28:10 <x1sc0> ok, thanks
15:28:47 <sophi> it's also the same we do for the month of LibreOffice
15:28:48 <x1sc0> personally, I would love if some of us have access to it so everyone can write things about QA
15:28:55 <buovjaga> you could update the newly-discovered QA site to latest Silverstrip and install https://addons.silverstripe.org/add-ons/silverstripe/blog
15:29:21 <sophi> you can add people on demand, it's easy
15:29:46 <sophi> but don't you prefer a blog?
15:30:07 <x1sc0> this is the ux blog
15:30:10 <x1sc0> #link https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/
15:30:22 <buovjaga> sophi: I just said how it can be turned into a blog :)
15:30:30 <sophi> yes, sorry :)
15:30:40 <buovjaga> would save the trouble of installing WP
15:31:32 <kysh__> x1sco: On the topic of exposure to QA --- The link# https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/IRC seems to have problem today. Says "(Unplanned) maintenance in progress"
15:31:53 <sophi> kysh__: wiki is under maintainance
15:32:26 <x1sc0> yep, there's a wiki problem, I should have sent another one, I didn't think of it
15:33:11 <djredaux> So there are some QA posts on the current blogs, yes, such as https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2018/02/20/libreoffice-6-0-exploring-qa-statistics/ and the blog has a category for QA. But I there could be a case for a QA specific blog perhaps, if there are folks willing to create content.
15:33:51 <kysh__> sophi: TY. As a new comer here I would like to suggest maybe an SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) to get people sta
15:34:18 <kysh__> *started on confirming bugs*
15:34:57 <x1sc0> I guess we can put the BHS blogpost in the blog instead and short news about QA can go there as well, even monthly report or something like that
15:35:56 <sophi> x1sc0: yes
15:36:09 <x1sc0> kysh__, what do you mean by SOP ?
15:36:11 <buovjaga> kysh__: we have such
15:36:19 <buovjaga> but wiki is down :)
15:36:28 <x1sc0> yep, indeed :D
15:37:12 <x1sc0> ok, I will take care of this as well, I'll create a blog, will talk with Heiko first to see what he did
15:37:26 <buovjaga> save for later: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/GetInvolved#Quick_start_guide_for_beginners standard newbie procedure
15:37:58 <kysh__> buovjaga: TY
15:38:24 <x1sc0> we can add the usual get involved links to the blog...
15:38:56 <djredaux> A quick look at the QA page on the Libreoffice website and I fail to find a link to the QA wiki pages, maybe I missed it but if not it would be good to add that, and of course to the new blog also.
15:39:14 <buovjaga> djredaux: nobody knew the page you found existed :)
15:39:14 <sophi> x1sc0: I guess you can use the same template (css) than design
15:39:21 <x1sc0> #idea A quick look at the QA page on the Libreoffice website and I fail to find a link to the QA wiki pages, maybe I missed it but if not it would be good to add that, and of course to the new blog also.
15:39:31 <buovjaga> djredaux: I don't even know how has access to edit it
15:39:51 <x1sc0> buovjaga, so you have access to it ?
15:39:58 <buovjaga> x1sc0: no
15:40:14 <sophi> Mike has done it /me have access
15:40:38 <x1sc0> ok, good to know
15:40:40 <sophi> x1sc0: I can add a link later today
15:41:04 <buovjaga> it needs more editing
15:41:14 <x1sc0> yep, I think so
15:41:29 <x1sc0> sophi, no need to do it today
15:41:34 <sophi> so maybe ask Mike when he is back from vacations
15:41:37 <djredaux> OK; so the link I posted first qa . libreoffice . org was from a google search, but looking at the main site not I find the QA page is actually https://www.libreoffice.org/community/qa/
15:41:58 <IZBot> News from tdfnew: [Bug 118394] MacOS: No text cursor in the second writer document, after going to edit-mode in a read-only doc file <https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=118394>
15:42:26 <x1sc0> I would like to replace the automated testing by UItesting
15:43:37 <x1sc0> anyway, we should tweak qa.libreoffice.org accordingly
15:44:36 <x1sc0> there's another idea I would like to discuss with you before the end of the meeting, I've shared it already in my email
15:45:26 <x1sc0> #idea running the week/month of QA where we try to reduce the number of Unconfirmed bugs to X
15:46:34 <x1sc0> something like: triage 3 bugs per day for 1 week and get a sticker...
15:46:54 <x1sc0> and then, we mention the participants in the blogpost :D
15:47:01 <sophi> good idea too :)
15:47:06 <djredaux> #agreed
15:47:24 <x1sc0> for the test, I think it's better a week than a month
15:48:13 <x1sc0> 3x7=21, if we get 10 participants, it's 210...
15:48:54 <x1sc0> 3 bugs should take that long in the end
15:48:59 <sophi> it's also easier to involve local communities when it's a week
15:49:56 <djredaux> Maybe consider inviting folks in the Marketing group to help design a marketing campaign for recruiting new contributors?
15:51:27 <djredaux> So that it could be more of a coordinated effort and not just a hit and miss instance of something here and there.
15:51:48 <x1sc0> the next BHS is in July, 8th, then in August, 6.1 will be released, I think beginning of September can be a good time for it
15:52:24 <sophi> or maybe after the conference?
15:52:57 <x1sc0> djredaux, yep, the marketing team is constantly trying and carrying out ideas to bring people to the project
15:53:05 <x1sc0> this would be more for QA
15:53:06 <sophi> we may have made also some progress with Mike/Guilhem on our open badges story to be able to present it to the community :)
15:54:03 <x1sc0> I think we will have the month of LibreOffice after the conference
15:54:41 <sophi> ah, ok, I didn't remember that, you're right
15:55:37 <x1sc0> I think it should be ok the first/second week of September
15:56:46 <x1sc0> any other idea we should discuss before we close the call ?
15:57:17 <bearon> are there areas identified where more information/explanation could be useful? (in general, not just videos)
15:57:28 <buovjaga> x1sc0: I don't think we have time for all the ones from raal :)
15:57:53 <bearon> like, getting/evaluating callgrind traces
15:57:54 <buovjaga> bearon: bibisecting, but you refuse to add the infos :P
15:58:01 <x1sc0> buovjaga, yep, I know
15:58:15 <buovjaga> sure, stuff on evaluating callgrind traces would be great
15:58:27 <bearon> buovjaga: i have to refine them before posting :P
15:58:28 <x1sc0> evolving from being QA to being Dev ?
15:58:49 <bearon> evolve and grow a third arm? :)
15:58:55 <buovjaga> bearon: I recently added a method that speeds up many callgrinds
15:59:33 <x1sc0> yep, I would be really interesting in howing how to analyze a callgrind trace
15:59:34 <buovjaga> so you  start with --instr-atstart=no and only activate it later in another terminal, then force dump
15:59:40 <djredaux> I would like to find information on writing automated testing scripts for UI testing.
15:59:46 <buovjaga> I've used it many times now
15:59:55 <bearon> buovjaga: i have more basic problems than that, understanding if callgrind results are taken fine or not
16:00:30 <x1sc0> djredaux, ping me when the wiki is up again, and I'll show you the place where the data is collected
16:00:40 <djredaux> x1sc0: will do
16:00:49 <buovjaga> djredaux: maybe you could evaluate the existing info regarding UI tests in the  wiki  and point out what is lacking in content / presentation
16:00:59 <x1sc0> buovjaga, bearon it would be a good talk for the conference
16:01:14 <x1sc0> I can mention it in the esc meeting to see if anyone volunteers
16:01:24 <bearon> sounds good
16:02:22 <x1sc0> ok, if there are other places that need improvement, just let me know
16:02:53 <djredaux> buovjaga: OK
16:03:09 * x1sc0 is closing the call
16:03:27 <djredaux> Adios
16:03:38 <x1sc0> thank you very much for attending the meeting and have a good morning/afternoon/evening
16:03:56 <sophi> thank you, see you :)
16:03:57 <x1sc0> #endmeeting