16:00:54 <x1sc0> #startmeeting
16:00:54 <IZBot> Meeting started Tue Jan 30 16:00:54 2018 UTC.  The chair is x1sc0. Plugin info at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:54 <IZBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
16:01:20 <x1sc0> sophi, buovjaga, welcome to the meeting
16:01:30 <buovjaga> thx
16:01:30 <x1sc0> anybody else here for the meeting ? bearon ?
16:01:53 * bearon raises hands
16:02:14 <x1sc0> great
16:02:56 <buovjaga> should we go through announcement-like stuff first?
16:03:42 <x1sc0> yep
16:03:46 <bearon> who provides the drumroll?
16:04:00 <x1sc0> probably no one else is joining, so we can go on
16:04:04 <buovjaga> ladies and gentlemen, may I present to you https://irc.documentfoundation.org/
16:04:33 <x1sc0> #topic IRC announcement
16:04:53 <bearon> neat :)
16:04:55 <buovjaga> verily, we have just gotten our custom domain to work
16:05:04 <x1sc0> cool
16:05:18 <x1sc0> now, we can change the wiki to point to this page
16:05:18 <buovjaga> if you want to use a different channel, the syntax is https://irc.documentfoundation.org/?settings=#libreoffice-qa
16:05:26 <buovjaga> I changed everything
16:05:27 <bearon> why not irc.libreoffice.org?
16:05:31 * bearon nitpicks
16:05:47 <buovjaga> because it is better, there is DLP as well
16:05:50 <x1sc0> #info <buovjaga> if you want to use a different channel, the syntax is https://irc.documentfoundation.org/?settings=#libreoffice-qa
16:06:22 <bearon> what does DLP have to do with it?
16:06:36 <cloph> #link https://irc.documentfoundation.org/
16:06:36 <x1sc0> buovjaga, could you please ask florian if the 'impressum (german legal rubbish)' link should be there too ?
16:06:54 <buovjaga> x1sc0: it is there
16:06:55 <sophi> x1sc0: yes, in any site
16:07:29 <buovjaga> I synced with Florian regarding it all
16:07:29 <sophi> buovjaga: great then :)
16:07:59 <x1sc0> buovjaga, oh right, it's 'imprint'
16:08:10 * bearon just thought people would think of the name of the product first rather than the organization behind it
16:08:57 <cloph> can always ask for a redirect...
16:09:08 <bearon> then again, all the other service sites are named as *.documentfoundation.org...
16:09:26 <cloph> or a tdf.io shortlink,....
16:09:36 <x1sc0> gerrit is libreoffice.org
16:09:40 <buovjaga> yes, libreoffice.org would not have been appropriate in this case
16:09:49 <buovjaga> x1sc0: gerrit was mentioned as one mistake
16:09:53 <cloph> the exception to every rule (except rule #34) :-)
16:09:55 <buovjaga> and now we skipped the mistake
16:10:17 <x1sc0> ok :) I didn't know
16:10:39 <bearon> i still don't understand what the mistake would've been, but anyway, it's not really important
16:10:55 <bearon> it's good to have our web-based irc :)
16:11:03 <buovjaga> bearon: the mistake of gerrit was to use libreoffice.org and not documentfoundation - thus misleading
16:11:07 <buovjaga> as TDF is the umbrella
16:11:19 <x1sc0> I guess we will be able to monitor how many users use it
16:11:55 <bearon> buovjaga: LO is a brand that's known, i don't think TDF is known as much among the users
16:13:04 <buovjaga> it's not about marketing, but representation
16:13:20 <x1sc0> bearon, I think most users will reach this page through the wiki
16:13:21 <sophi> yes, make sure you are at TDF home :)
16:13:47 <bearon> ok, let's move on
16:14:09 <x1sc0> buovjaga, any other announcement ?
16:14:18 <x1sc0> apart from 6.0 ;-)
16:15:07 <buovjaga> nope
16:15:54 <x1sc0> well, for 6.0 I'm going to write a blogpost about QA, similar to the ones I wrote last year
16:16:28 <x1sc0> I'll send you a draft version to you in case you want to add something or review it
16:17:32 <x1sc0> so buovjaga, could you sign up in testlink in the end ?
16:18:42 <buovjaga> x1sc0: no
16:19:01 <buovjaga> x1sc0: nevermind the technical issue for now, but I was thinking of documentation
16:19:25 <buovjaga> nowhere in our wiki, website or the TestLink login page itself is it mentioned how to register
16:19:36 <x1sc0> yes, it's true
16:19:40 <x1sc0> I've just added it to https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TestLink
16:19:54 <sophi> buovjaga: because it was not ready to use
16:20:06 <x1sc0> just the links
16:20:07 <buovjaga> ok, and as I understand it, https://user.documentfoundation.org/ is just temporary, so let's keep it in mind when the next change comes
16:20:13 <sophi> People will register, but won't find anything to do
16:20:41 <cloph> user.documentfoundation.org is not temporary - that is going to stick
16:20:43 <buovjaga> I added the registering info to the Bugzilla task from moggi
16:21:02 <buovjaga> aha, we were told it is transitory
16:21:10 <sophi> buovjaga: I think https://user.documentfoundation.org/ is going to stay, but I'm not sure that all the TDF site has been added
16:21:36 <x1sc0> at least testlink is in https://user.documentfoundation.org/, so it should work
16:21:38 <sophi> s/TDF site have been added/
16:22:08 <buovjaga> sure, and it works for new users, let's ignore my technical issue in this
16:22:55 <x1sc0> sophi, do you think a call for help for test writers will make sense ?
16:23:48 <buovjaga> just wanted to bring that up and maybe we can hop into another UI test topic: we should advertise needUITest keyword for new test writers, right?
16:23:57 <sophi> x1sc0: let me sort first what tests should be done, I think after fosdem it will be ok
16:24:39 <buovjaga> so when new kids arrive and want to write tests, we can point them to 1) TestLink 2) BZ query for needUITest
16:24:41 <x1sc0> sophi, ok
16:24:44 <sophi> x1sc0: from what you told me, all those already available are good, but I need to write more
16:25:20 <sophi> buovjaga: that's a good idea, maybe also some documentation on how-to write good tests
16:25:26 <x1sc0> buovjaga, I think I've never used this keyword before, but it's a good idea
16:26:10 <buovjaga> yeah I became aware of the keyword today in this context :)
16:26:18 <x1sc0> #link https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-qa/2016-May/009563.html
16:27:43 <buovjaga> heh, I had forgotten about that origin, but I think it will seamlessly morph into something test writers can use as a source for inspiration
16:28:12 <x1sc0> #idea use 'needUITest' as bug candidates for automated/manual tests
16:29:38 <x1sc0> I guess using the metabugs we can find similar ones
16:30:43 <buovjaga> then another topic as rapid fire: what is the problem with automated "obsolete" comment tags targeting useful comments?
16:31:01 <x1sc0> buovjaga, like the one you mentioned the other day ?
16:31:04 <buovjaga> yep
16:31:24 <buovjaga> too general target string?
16:32:08 * x1sc0 looking for the link
16:32:35 <x1sc0> #link https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114769#c2
16:32:38 <IZBot> bug 114769: LibreOffice-Writer normal/medium NEW Relative URL lost after Save as HTML (Export as HTML works)
16:32:39 <buovjaga> mind you, I removed the tag, but evidence is still in the history
16:33:02 <buovjaga> qa-admin@libreoffice.org 	2018-01-01 03:26:04 UTC 	Comment 2 Tag 		obsolete
16:34:14 <x1sc0> yep, I know, the problem is Dieter used 'I have set the bug's status to 'NEEDINFO'.'
16:34:43 <x1sc0> so the script, if the bug is set to something different to NEEDINFO, puts it to obsolete
16:35:07 <buovjaga> yep :)  so I guess you need to change QA admin's message to have some unique string
16:35:37 <buovjaga> and hope that Dieter does not copy the new uniqueness as well :D
16:36:38 <buovjaga> again, I can propose to use a unicorn character https://emojipedia.org/unicorn-face/
16:36:56 <buovjaga> then QA folks will be "I'm not copying *that*!"
16:37:10 <x1sc0> hahaha
16:37:36 <buovjaga> they don't understand it so they avoid it :)
16:38:06 <x1sc0> I can change the script, but it will probably put less comments to 'obsolete'
16:38:21 <buovjaga> right, due to history
16:38:39 <buovjaga> hmm, but maybe we can live with it vs. useful comments being hidden
16:39:01 <buovjaga> sleep on the decision and the answer will come to you in the morning
16:39:29 <x1sc0> normally I do: I write something like I can't reproduce it here, do that bla bla, and in the end 'I have set the bug's status to 'NEEDINFO'.'
16:40:19 <x1sc0> yep, I'll sleep on it
16:40:36 <buovjaga> then, my final little thing: when do you think would be a good moment to discuss dashboard?
16:40:41 <buovjaga> after FOSDEM perhaps?
16:40:55 <x1sc0> what do you mean ?
16:41:21 <buovjaga> I think it would be nice, if we could squeeze a beautiful chart out of it with NEW reports while excluding meta bugs
16:41:43 <buovjaga> so like this old thing but prettier and more useful https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/reports.cgi?product_id=109&datasets=NEW
16:43:07 <buovjaga> and we could generally start putting ideas down on what the heck to use it for re: bug graphs
16:43:12 <x1sc0> is it not possible to do it right now? dashboard is very configurable
16:43:57 <buovjaga> well it's not immediately obvious at least :)
16:44:23 <buovjaga> I would just want the chart to be there when I arrive
16:44:56 * x1sc0 is wondering how to change the chart type to comulative
16:45:39 <x1sc0> buovjaga, well, I think the point here is to know what we really want to display
16:46:19 <buovjaga> sure, the interface looks quite read-only to me re: the backend stuff
16:46:29 <buovjaga> I can resize the panels etc., but what use is that...
16:47:15 <x1sc0> buovjaga, could you please think some nice to show charts and send an email to me?
16:47:26 <buovjaga> sure
16:47:37 <x1sc0> great!
16:47:51 <bearon> the best way to show bug numbers is in a pie chart :D
16:47:55 <buovjaga> I think we should start with the "cumulative anything" familiar from classic BZ
16:48:38 <buovjaga> bearon: and the pie chart with "Unknown + Collabora" for "Assigned organisations" is super useful
16:48:43 <x1sc0> bearon, I used a lot pie charts in my presentation in Rome :D
16:49:11 <bearon> :)
16:50:06 <x1sc0> buovjaga, anyway, send me the email so I have a track of it
16:51:08 <x1sc0> before we end the meeting, I have a question about pinging old QA contributors
16:51:23 <x1sc0> do you have any opinion on what we should/shouldn't mention in the email ?
16:53:18 <buovjaga> maybe that automation is getting better, but we still need humans
16:54:49 <x1sc0> buovjaga, in the end, it's me sending the email, so I do normally tweak it a bit before sending it
16:55:26 <x1sc0> but for old contributors, the list is quite long
16:56:43 <buovjaga> x1sc0: I'm in favour of pruning the list just to make it easier to understand it yourself
16:56:53 <buovjaga> so I'm opposite of thorsten
16:57:35 <buovjaga> reduce the number of people so you can keep the list in your head in some shape
16:58:12 <buovjaga> you don't have to keep in your awareness people that will never respond or re-join anyway (ie. retired devs)
16:58:34 <x1sc0> buovjaga, yep, that's why I thought of pinging those within a range of time and ignore old devs
16:59:50 <x1sc0> yep, no point in pinging retired devs
17:00:24 <buovjaga> people get enough spam anyway :)  we can have mercy on them
17:00:49 <x1sc0> yep
17:01:11 <x1sc0> buovjaga, OTOH, if you think of anything we should mention in the mail, just let me know
17:01:32 <x1sc0> probably I'll share the email with you before I send them
17:01:39 <buovjaga> it would just be something like "plz, I'm begging you"
17:01:41 <x1sc0> so you can comment
17:02:39 <x1sc0> ok, time is over, I'm going to close the meetings, thanks for attending it
17:02:47 <x1sc0> #endmeeting